Unfortunately, Mr. Lucas is right on in his opinion. Here in Wisconsin too often monumentation is "waived" with a certification on the face of the plat to lower the cost. Items are added or omitted from surveys as if a survey has an A la Carte menu. I'd say 80% of the time I do a survey for a client and am provided a copy of an old survey, either there is no monumentation indicated on the plat or none was set. Because our we do not require a 4 year degree, there are too many "glorified technicians" who are licensed. Techs who work in offices where there are 5 other RLS's who are all too happy to write recommendations. Unfortunately, again, there is too little effort to do anything about it. Our state society is meeting this friday to talk about some of the issues and hopefully come up with a solution. If you were offended it's a good indication that you do not practice what Mr. Lucas described, but believe me it does happen. Kevin Slottke, RLS, Wisconsin

ILC's have NOTHING to do with LAW. They are the product of POLICY. Bad policy at that. The only thing good about an ILC, (Improvement Location SURVEY) (the word SURVEY should be OMITTED) is that when you see the initials ILC, you know it is NOT a survey. It is a real good feel good pretend survey, to salve the ignorant. Now, what has to do with law, is a REAL survey, whereby the RECORD TITLE lines, and the OCCUPATION lines are resolved, and MADE the same line, either through QUITCLAIMS, or solid historic usage. Surveyors are SUPPOSED to honor the law, not walk all over it. Walking on the law... that is lawyer's bogus stuff. Like politicians, and non objective finders of 'fact'.

Mr. Lucas's article is just another in a long history of members of the surveying profession attempting to point out the fact that a description does not control the location of property lines. Surveyor's 'interpret' descriptions, we do not perpetuate them. When there are errors in the record, how are those errors discovered and who provides the correction information if it is not the surveyor? If the survey is provided as part of the documentation of a real estate sale, isn't the surveyor facilitating a fraudulent transaction of the record description is sufficiently inaccurate such that a competent surveyor would have discovered the error but does not inform the buyer/lender that a correction to the record may be necessary? Richard Schaut

Mr. Lucas is not referring to mortgage inspection reports at all. He is reffering to the practice of not providing the service the clients expect they are contracting for by either leaving or adding to boundary uncertainty. When some professed survey instructors teach that surveyors are not authorized to determine boundaries what other conclusion can be reached?

Medicine is a profession, so a "kidney transplant" means the same in Alabama as it does here in Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, Surveyors, as Professionals, have a significent number of terms that mean different things in different states. Mr. Lucas states that a "'retracement survey' isn't a true 'boundary survey.'" A client showed me this P.S.L.S. brochure, "Land Surveying & the Landowner" which I find defines our company policy quite well: "Boundary Survey: A survey for the expressed purpose of establishing or re-establishing the corners and boundary lines of a given parcel of land. A boundary survey may be an original survey or a retracement survey.... A retracement survey is a boundary survey which re-establishes the corners and boundary lines of a parcel of land previously surveyed..." A wise real estate attorney once told me to take all boundary treatises with a grain of salt, as they may not apply in all states. So, I always have to read national surveying magazine articles with that in mind.

Survey practice varies considerably across the USA. It may be that in Mr. Lucas' area and in Wisconsin, such questionable practices are prevalent. In a heated discussion about this over 20 years ago, our PA standards committee agreed the word "survey" should not be used for a Mortgage Inspection, but it still happens today. Until the survey profession self-regulates and polices itself, politicians, insurance and real estate agents and some attorneys will attempt to tell us what we should provide as a product. It's really a sad commentary on the moral and fiscal strength of our own profession.

There is widespread confusion of the general public about what a "˜survey' is, as it relates to the acquisition of real property. Unfortunately, most residential buyers of a house and land depend upon the real estate agent to advise them accordingly. By so doing, most new buyers do not get a survey of the boundaries of their new property and those that believe they did, have received something less than a real survey. Several states allow for the surveyor to provide an inspection of the property, from a surveying stand point, to determine by a cursorily review, if there may be survey related violations. The surveyor provides a report or certificate disclosing and advising to such violations. Such violation might be the wrong house on the wrong property, the long established fence line does not follow the deed description, the garage sits upon a sewer easement, the house violates the setback distance, etc. The homeowner finds out regrettably at a later time, usually during the process of selling his home many years later, that the survey really is not a survey. That in fact, the hastily prepared certificate, done for a low cost fee and rushed by the mortgage company just days before closing, did not establish property markers, and in fact there is a dispute with the adjoining property and that the garage violates the minimum setback by 0.5 feet. I, as a surveyor in a state that allows for the infamous ILC (Improvement Location certificate) have observed MANY inadequately prepared certificates, which have caused many a home owner grief many years later. The public is being damaged by this practice and many surveyors fall victim to the pressures of the client to prepare a cheap fast paced document. From a economic standpoint, and by common since, there is no professional way a surveyor can prepare a certificate, for what the average fee in my state is, $200. In any circle of surveyors, just the mention of "˜mortgage survey', ILC, "˜mortgage loan inspection', et al, will bring up fierce discussion. This debate has been around a long time and sees no end. The problem as this surveyor sees it, is not with the service itself, but with the pressures many surveyors succumb to by the demanding real estate agent, mortgage broker, title company and others to prepare a fast and hurried, less than professional document for a low cost fee. If surveyors would charge a reasonable fee for the professional service they provide, the public would be well served. The widespread confusion that the general public has is a byproduct of low fees and less than professional standards. Ron Flanagan, PLS - Colorado ron@copls.com

Why on earth would a Professional Land Surveyor ever contract to do a "Drive By"? That is not a survey needing any professional training at all! It can not be for the money!!! It makes no difference what the "LAW" allows. One is either a "Professional Land Surveyor" or not.