I understand the sentiments of that surveyor Mr. Ward. I assume he didnt just give this comment passing thought, he has probably been unemployed for some time as have I. I am getting by doing part time work some in Surveying other parts completely outside of it. I never did get paid much for surveying work so almost anything will pay me as much or more than surveying. If i find anything reasonable out of surveying i will take it and never go back, it is hard work, low pay and not respected either inside or outside my profession.

I will never regret being a surveyor. When times are good, or were good, it was like getting "paid to play". But when times are bad, it can be down right depressing. However in the current economy, times are bad for almost everyone. Especially for those in land development/construction and related fields< ie, (surveying: can't build unless you know where it goes)

I would also like to comment that your reasons why there is trouble are good ones, however I believe they only apply in a robust economy; good ideas for promotions, pay raises, etc. In this present economy, I don't believe any idea will work. On my last job as a project manager, the only thing I could not do was sign the pay checks. The jobs just dried up. It was if someone turned of the faucet.> And as far as our "value to society", the Title Insurance companies decided that one; shortcuts that I believe was part of the "loose lending" pressures that caused this meltdown in the first place!

I think it is just a matter of time where the construction staking aspect of our profession will cease to exist--as it is, the design professionals in the same office that employed us are making easier for site development contractors to do their own layouts. The contractors will find a way to pave without string lines, if they're not doing so,already. Firms today are most probably running a skeletal frame to take care of the minimal land transactions and topographical stuff that's needed.

the licensed surveyor is going to be a thing of the past. plans have state plane and the contractors have GPS. What more do you need? an appraiser who only does a drive-by gets paid 600, the survey...325. how could you possibly go any lower or prove to everyone that the survey is the least important and un-professional piece of paper for that price. GIS...NO SURVEYOR NEEDED!!

Harry:

Count me in as another unemployed surveyor----I've been laid off since April, and it just doesn't look good for future opportunities. The firm I worked for previously had a hard time staying competitive on construction staking projects, and I just think they gave up and were delaying the inevitable for me, now add the fact that GIS and GPS will take a hold on all site contractors soon. So where does that leave the surveyor? Maybe my only hope is that I'll follow a retiring LS, I think they still will be needed, even though "Joe surveyor" thinks differently in his recent post on POB.

ChrisG

i am in maryland, also unemployed, since January. i was just told that my field experience was good but the employer said they only need 1-2 days of fieldwork per week. they said if i knew civil 3d they could use me for the other 3 days in the office. now i see what mr. ward was saying in bullet #4 in his article. thsanks for teh advice, i know what to do next.

i am in maryland, also unemployed, since January. i was just told that my field experience was good but the employer said they only need 1-2 days of fieldwork per week. they said if i knew civil 3d they could use me for the other 3 days in the office. now i see what mr. ward was saying in bullet #4 in his article. thsanks for teh advice, i know what to do next.

Whie i dont think i will ever regret being a surveyor i believe we have to adapt to the changing work place. Contractors using GPS machine control and doing their own stake out is here to stay but we must make sure they follow the law on who provides their control and who does their asbuilts. We must keep those two things ours and get a fair price for them.
Also we need to embrace 3d modeling and put it under our jurisdiction. Modelers are not accountable right now and are not being goverened enough. We as surveyors have to find a way to make modeling ours in order to protect our proffession.
Lastly, we should strive to get whatever piece of the GIS field that we can. Base maps and some of the mapping data should be under the domain of the surveyor. Does GIS need to be soley the domain of the surveyor, absolutely not but i believe a slice of that pie should be ours.
Its time to change people, change or get left behind, the survey industry will never be the same as it was

all - just a quick note to acknowledge that GIS & survey go well together - i recently was awarded a project to oversee the GIS acquisition for a county in Tenn. w/o our combined skills in the 2 fields we would have had to lay people off - now we are solid for 2 years at least...

"Modelers are not accountable right now and are not being goverened enough. We as surveyors have to find a way to make modeling ours in order to protect our proffession."

- I laugh at this quote wholeheartedly. It is the dying call of the all too common computer-illiterate and made-obsolete surveyor; grasping at whatever he can as he falls off the cliff's edge of 30-years-ago-mentality.

The truth is, any college Sophomore having taken any class on 3-D artistic rendering, has more knowledge about CAD-design and 3-D terrains than Surveyors of 30 years.

The surveying profession mired down free-thought and innovation by requiring licensure from government entities for surveyors; the result - stagnation and uselessness of those in the field. The standards are outdated, the practices are outdated, and surveyors can't hide behind lobbyists forever.

Requiring licensure for data modeling is a feable attempt at survival.

Maybe you non-tech savvy surveyors could go start a buggy-whip company somewhere.

I have been without work since March of this year. I also earned my surveyor's license during the layoff. I am the employee Mr. Ward refers to in his post. My experience starts in the field, continues through the office, and right on through to marketing. I can do it all from field to finish... stakeout, boundary, HDS scanning and modeling, rendering, surface modeling, etc. Prior to being laid off, my supervisor informed me that I was the prototype of what the firm and profession was looking for in this economic environment. This is the exact reason I was laid off. It was me or one of the many 'professionals' who are fortunate enough to skate on the backs of those that actually survey on a daily basis.

All hail the administrator!

The problem with surveyors today lies in their stupidity, greed, fear, complacency, and laziness. We have boards pushing a four year degree requirement for licensure under the pretense that it will increase fees for the profession. The truth? It is protectionism at its finest. A method of slowing down the masses to provide job security. The good old boys are covering their backsides with kids holding four year degrees and getting them to eat out of their hand because the educated require experience in order to apply their education and stamp. The saddest part of all of it is that the majority of the men who are pushing for education climbed the ladder in the surveying profession without a four year degree and are now destroying any chance for the men with high school diplomas to follow the very same path they did themselves. Families screwing families.

This speaks volumes about the true integrity of the profession.

I never want to hear a licensed professional complain over why they cannot find good help again. The rules and regulations in any state not requiring a degree for licensure contain a statement similar to the following:

"Experience under the direction of a licensed professional surveyor"

This statement provides the notion of an apprenticeship structure that doesn't exist. If you want to ascend in the profession you have to scratch, climb, back lick, and fight your way up. If the profession wants to succeed then professionals need to provide a structure for the layman to work within. Training and interim testing for instrument operators, party chiefs, draftsmen, and technicians would provide a structured path for individuals. The profession does not want to go this route. Why? Because training requires obligation and obligation translates to money. Why put forth the effort to support the profession when you can just dump, run, and hide? Most, if not all firms have one or a few individuals who can handle the daily management of lesser trained staff. The absence of structure provides a crack for worms to hide in the dark.

Standards… The rules, regulations, and requirements for my state are incredibly weak. The rules are written so vaguely that they create a “Just follow the lead of the guy who surveyed before you and you will not make waves. You’ll make a friend and friends go down together” mentality. They also sit idle as they watch individuals without a license provide surveying services for engineers under the cover of the engineer’s license. N one wants to call anyone's bluff out of fear of their own bluff eventually being called out. Meanwhile, professionals are allowing markets like photogrammetry, lidar, GIS, construction layout, and the requirement of a mortgage survey when purchasing a home to be taken away from them.

Attend any state board meeting and you’d think you were surrounded by brothers of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. That is only due to the fact the lights are on. It is a one act play.

This rant could go on and on. In the end, the profession is severely lacking principles, ethics, and regard for the profession itself along with the individuals that serve it. We will not see any change in the fees we can charge until we have a change in mentality. We need professionals who operate individually on their own merit with the desire to provide a professional service that in turn provides for their family and the families that serve them.

Today, we have a PE posting an article on the pitfalls of the land surveying our profession. Humph! PE's always pay a surveyor for the services they provide and never increase the scope without increasing the fee!

Posturing and posing is great fluff and makes a good front page. I can’t tell you how much it warms my heart to know where I can go to get my lawn mower fixed by a licensed professional. I am so happy to have a PE point me in the right direction!

Thank you Mr. Ward for your wonderful insight. Can you go back to class now please!

The above responder neglected to note that the author of this post is a PE stealing machine control work that surveyors should be performing!

And he weeps for the out of work surveyor!

Covering your tracks are you Mr. Ward?

I am seeing the land surveying profession in Washington slowly dying. I have been out of work since April 2009; the company I worked for is ready to close its doors for good. I have inquired about work locally, state wide, nationally, even applied for a survey position at the South Pole with not as much as a thank you response for my effort used to be common courtesy in times gone by. The local surveying association is ignoring the issue and gamely continuing to promote its social agenda...lets golf our way out of this and go to a ball game, those of us that still are employed. Time to find a new profession.
Last one out of the survey office please turn out the lights.

It has been my experience that much of the surveyors' work is now taken by many PE's who allow the public to go on thinking that since someone is a PE, they are above and beyond the qualifications of a Professional Land Surveyor. If you read the article in this issue of POB regarding ethics and integrity, I sometimes wonder why these are two words always aimed at the surveying profession. Perhaps it is time some of the PE's gined a conscience, and helped educate the public to the regards of a Surveyor and an Engineer being two entirely different professions. Most surveyors I have known have fairly good ethics and integrity. It is the PE he must do battle with in the places of authority such as the licensing board. Most of them think they took four classes in surveying and know how to design from and produce a topographic survey. Oh what is to it when you are simply placing numbers into formulas? And many of them are arrogant in the stand that they think they are qualified also in the determination of boundaries. And while attending their college classes nobody seems to tell them anything different. Perhaps it is their turn to speak up and out to the public about Land Surveyors and Engineers being two entirely different professions. Or are they too arrogant?